Subject: Re: [sloan-25mlog 2388] Re: 2.5m obslog 20150626 (SJD 57200) From: Dan Long Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 17:44:25 -0600 --Apple-Mail=_064704DD-C6F3-482B-9C0F-E1FF0FFB0683 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Unfortunately in the new TCC calibration offsets are on sky rather than = a fixed amount on the axis, so it sort of works, but not perfectly. If = you're going through the trouble of using the engineering camera, it = seems worth it to take a few pterr points and see if one can get a = reasonable update to IA and update the pointing model.=20 No need to edit the model, just take the 6 equally spaced points and fit = it to the existing model (as one always does), but fixing all terms = except IA (which one does not usually do). If it produces reasonable = results it should work for all altitudes rather than having to fiddle a = cosine dec term in the azimuth offset. I worry a little that if the = offset is really 10 arcminutes, that the calibration offset might not = work for a wide enough range of altitude to make it a true fix. -Dan On Jun 27, 2015, at 5:29 PM, Constance Rockosi wrote: > Agreed, since we know that the problem really is in azimuth. >=20 > It would be interesting and useful to know how to modify the pointing = model, so we should not drop that conversation entirely. But for getting = us back to work, I would think the offsets should work. >=20 > --Connie >=20 > On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Joseph Huehnerhoff = wrote: > I was thinking the same thing. Find the star in the ENG cam, then = sticky the offset. >=20 > Joe >=20 >> On Jun 27, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Jegunn wrote: >>=20 >> can you do sticky calibration offsets in alt,az? If so, do you really = need to go to TPOINT at all?? I think it would still be wise to start = off with >> the eng cam, just to save time trying to find a star in a 25" = acquisition >> fiber, but maybe if the star is bright enough that would work, too. >>=20 >> --j >>=20 >> On Sat, 27 Jun 2015, Dan Long wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Jim, >>>=20 >>> Yes, I saw that page too. One could probably just make a "grid" of = 6 points spaced 60 deg apart in az, at some moderate elevation (say 50 = deg), take those 6 points and fit it to the existing model, fixing every = term except IA. If that produces reasonable results, just implement = that model (only IA will have changed). >>>=20 >>> The first point you do (or maybe even before you start), you can use = calibration offsets to search for the star. They will remain sticky for = subsequent points. >>>=20 >>> -Dan >>>=20 >>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Jegunn wrote: >>>=20 >>>> The TPOINT web page says that a five or six star pointing model is = enough to determine IA for an initial setup. But the engcam field is = only ~3.5', is it not? So it will/may take some fiddling to get a star = at all. I think trying to do it without the engcam is likely to waste = the night (if there is a night). Best to start with a brightish star = quite near the meridian at low dec (say -15 or so), so azimuth is = essentially hour angle except for a factor of cos(latitude + delta) and = take several engcam frames starting with, say ra - .25 degrees, so 15 = arcminutes off, and step up in ra by .05 deg until you find the star in = the engcam frame. center it and read the coordinates. The azimuth offset = is the ra error divided by cos(latitude + dec) if you are close to the = meridian. >>>>=20 >>>> I don't know how easy it is to put in an azimuth offset, sticky or = not, in the TCC, but this technique will only work very close to the = meridian, so >>>> finding stars elsewhere in the sky for the pointing model will be a = problem. Will TPOINT give you a solution with only one star if you ask = to >>>> fit only one parameter? One should be all it needs for this, but I = have >>>> no idea. Conor?? >>>>=20 >>>> Editing the pointing model files without knowing what the terms = mean >>>> or what the units are seems to me a bit dicey. If you cannot find = Russet, I suspect that Russell might know or have docs that would tell = him/you, >>>> and if this is done on the 3.5m (why??) often, one of the other = 3.5m >>>> observers might know. >>>>=20 >>>> --jim >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Sat, 27 Jun 2015, Dan Long wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> I think she is on vacation and in only intermittent contact, but = forwarding on the off chance she is >>>>> looking and has input. >>>>> -Dan >>>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 3:03 PM, mark klaene wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Might send note to russet she does this all the time >>>>> Mk >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 14:30, Dan Long wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I'm still unsure how to get the offset measured on the = engineering camera to >>>>> translate to the IA term. Perhaps the best way to do this is = to take a 10 to 20 >>>>> point model (e.g. grid of one elevation and every 20 deg in = azimuth) and fit only >>>>> allowing IA to vary and see what tpoint comes up with. >>>>> -Dan >>>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 2:03 PM, Joseph Huehnerhoff wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I just talked with Conor. >>>>> The point values are in ~/tccdata/telmod.dat >>>>> The data is in the standard TPOINT format. >>>>> I have not modified a pointing model before, only run a new one. = The IA term is >>>>> IA +77.4965 1.16735 >>>>> So it seems like we should just have to edit the second parameter? >>>>> Joe >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Dan Long = wrote: >>>>> Hi Conor and/or Russell, >>>>> If the observers are able to open and determine the azimuth = offset with the >>>>> engineering camera, would you be able to help with implementing = that value in >>>>> the pointing model IA term? >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Dan >>>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>>=20 >>>>> From: Dan Long >>>>> Subject: Re: [sloan-25mlog 2378] Re: 2.5m obslog 20150626 (SJD = 57200) >>>>> Date: June 27, 2015 7:54:18 AM MDT >>>>> To: Joseph Huehnerhoff >>>>> Cc: Dan Long , Audrey_Oravetz >>>>> , "2.5m_log" , = Conor >>>>> Sayres , Russell Owen , Muwen Shi >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I think that is going to be the quickest way to determine = the >>>>> indexing error. A quick calculation shows that at the read head = it is >>>>> about .015" per arcminute. I wouldn't think it would shift more = than a >>>>> tenth of an inch when adjusted, but if it was that much a tenth of = an >>>>> inch would be about 8 arcminutes. >>>>> One could try tricks like long exposures and/or out of focus = images >>>>> to try and find guide stars, but it appears things could be far = enough >>>>> off that the engineering camera will be the quickest way to sort = things >>>>> out. >>>>> Going to an FK5 star near where the the first plate coordinates = are, >>>>> then checking the center like is done for a pointing model, then >>>>> measuring the offset of the star should get the value. Hopefully = it is >>>>> nearly all in azimuth (could be a red flag of a coordinate = conversion >>>>> error if it isn't). >>>>> Russell mentioned that the best way to implement the offset is = to >>>>> edit the IA term in the pointing model. With the new TCC I'm not = sure >>>>> how to go about that. Where do the pointing model coefficients = live? >>>>> If one makes changes to a file, does it need to be committed with = git >>>>> (and I'm really fuzzy on the details of how to do that)? One = final >>>>> question is what are the units of IA and how do we determine which = sign >>>>> the error is? >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Dan >>>>> P.S. Muwen, please put the engineering camera in the bay. >>>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Joseph Huehnerhoff wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Is it off far enough where we need to put use the >>>>> engineering camera? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Joe >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 4:10 AM, asimmons@apo.nmsu.edu >>>>> wrote: >>>>> APACHE POINT OBSERVATORY SDSS 2.5M >>>>> OBSERVING LOG >>>>> Friday June 26, 2015 >>>>> (SJD 57200) >>>>> ---- Observing Team ---- >>>>> Dmitry Bizyaev >>>>> Audrey Oravetz >>>>> ---- Observing Summary ---- >>>>> We were able to open for a few hours at the beginning of the >>>>> night, but remained >>>>> closed after 05:30Z. >>>>> *** We need assistance today! *** >>>>> *** AZ is ~10 arcmin off from where it should be *** >>>>> During the time we were open, we were unable to acquire the >>>>> field on two plates. >>>>> It seems as if the telescope is significantly off due to >>>>> what happened to the >>>>> azimuth read head yesterday. >>>>> One of the two azimuth green lights that signify the >>>>> telescope is at instChange >>>>> or at a low altitude does not come on at the designated >>>>> positions. This is an >>>>> indication that the telescope is out of alignment. We >>>>> noticed that at slewing >>>>> from instChange, both lights come on from 120.8-120.9 >>>>> azimuth - meaning that the >>>>> telescope is close to 10' off. In our attempt to find the >>>>> field, we were looking >>>>> in roughly 1' radius. >>>>> Please see the log body for more details. >>>>> ---- Observing Plan ---- >>>>> Fri 26 JUN 2015 57200.0 0.71 02:57 10:36 14:13 >>>>> 21:53 ---- >>>>> APOGEE-2 until 08:39 ( 5.7 h), then MaNGA ( 1.9 h) >>>>> ---- Observing Log ---- >>>>> Afternoon: >>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>> All hardware, software, actors, guider, plates checked, no >>>>> problems found. >>>>> Collimation with cart 16: >>>>> 0:47:02 Hartmann collimate output on cart #16 >>>>> sp1: offset: r=3D -2308 (Out of focus); b=3D 4.8 (Out of >>>>> focus) >>>>> sp2: offset: r=3D 2209 (Out of focus); b=3D -9.1 (Out of >>>>> focus) >>>>> sp1: pred. move: spAverageMove=3D -1925 >>>>> sp2: pred. move: spAverageMove=3D 2554 >>>>> sp1: pred. spResiduals: r=3D -383, b=3D -1.2, txt=3D OK, spTemp >>>>> =3D 14.6 >>>>> sp2: pred. spResiduals: r=3D -345, b=3D -1.1, txt=3D OK, spTemp >>>>> =3D 13.4 >>>>> Blue rings are OK. >>>>> --- >>>>> cwPositions =3D 423 419 424 423; >>>>> MCP instr =3D 16 (mounted); >>>>> Guider cart=3D 16, plate=3D 7433, side=3D A (loaded); >>>>> ---------- >>>>> motorPosition >>>>> sp1: 4796, 4980, 4887; >>>>> sp2: 29449, 28441, 29779; >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Median spectrographs temperatures: >>>>> Tsp1=3D 14.6, Tsp2=3D 13.5; >>>>> Outside air temperature=3D 17.4; >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Boss CCD Temp : >>>>> sp1r0=3D -125.0 (-126.6); >>>>> sp1b2=3D -99.6 (-100.0); >>>>> sp2r0=3D -134.0 (-134.8); >>>>> sp2b2=3D -101.2 (-100.0); >>>>> sp1LN2: 10.0; >>>>> sp2LN2: 8.0; >>>>> ---------- >>>>> gcameraTemp=3D -40.1 (-40.0) >>>>> gcamera simulating =3D Off >>>>> Rel. Focus =3D 0.0; >>>>> objArcOff =3D 0.0, 0.0; >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Apogee: >>>>> vacuum =3D 8.796e-07 ( >>>> ln2Level =3D 92.471 ( > 85 ) >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Weather: >>>>> humid25m =3D 55.7; >>>>> airTemp25m =3D 17.4C, dpTemp25m =3D 8.4C; >>>>> diff=3D 9.0C; >>>>> wind25m =3D n/a, direction =3D n/a >>>>> ---------- >>>>> semOwner =3D TCC:0:0 >>>>> stuiVer=3D(1.7.0 2015-06-04), pid =3D 42158 >>>>> During the checkout it was found that 1/3 of AZ fiducials >>>>> complain that they are >>>>> 320,000 off, 1/3 are ~-750 off, and 1/2 are >>>>> normal. After comsultation with >>>>> Dan we decided to not apply any fiducial correction so far. >>>>> 01:35Z ventilation started >>>>> Night: >>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>> We completed spectro monthly flats tonight. >>>>> 3 00:44 b1-00201945 16 7433 arc Lef 4.1 6719 6905 >>>>> 6812 HART >>>>> 4 00:45 b1-00201946 16 7433 arc Rig 4.1 6719 6905 >>>>> 6812 HART >>>>> 5 00:51 b1-00201947 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 6 00:56 b1-00201948 16 7433 arc Out 4.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 7 01:06 b1-00201949 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 8 01:08 b1-00201950 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 9 01:10 b1-00201951 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 10 01:12 b1-00201952 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 11 01:14 b1-00201953 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 12 01:16 b1-00201954 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 13 01:18 b1-00201955 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 14 01:20 b1-00201956 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 15 01:21 b1-00201957 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 16 01:23 b1-00201958 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 17 01:25 b1-00201959 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 18 01:27 b1-00201960 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 19 01:29 b1-00201961 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 20 01:31 b1-00201962 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 21 01:33 b1-00201963 16 7433 fla Out 30.1 4796 4980 >>>>> 4887 >>>>> 03:13Z - Opened enclosure after the clouds got better. >>>>> Filled spectrographs. >>>>> 03:05Z - gotoField cart 9, APOGEE2 plate 8469, 040+45. >>>>> Could not find stars. Attempted to offset the telescope, >>>>> with no luck. Tried >>>>> spiral pattern with no luck. Decided to correct the rotator >>>>> and azimuth >>>>> fiducials (they were large) and try again. >>>>> 03:25:26 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D 61.0, err=3D -325792 >>>>> error is too large to be corrected ( > >>>>> 600) >>>>> 03:25:53 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D 62.3, err=3D -682 >>>>> error is too large to be corrected ( > >>>>> 600) >>>>> 03:25:53 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D 62.3, err=3D 14558 >>>>> error is too large to be corrected ( > >>>>> 600) >>>>> 03:27:19 Rot: ind=3D29, deg=3D233.1, err=3D -1089 >>>>> error is too large to be corrected ( > >>>>> 600) >>>>> 03:27:23 Rot: ind=3D28, deg=3D237.8, err=3D -1100 >>>>> error is too large to be corrected ( > >>>>> 600) >>>>> 03:40:01 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D 61.0, err=3D -325802 >>>>> error is too large to be corrected ( > >>>>> 600) >>>>> 03:41:16 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D 62.3, err=3D -758 >>>>> error is too large to be corrected ( > >>>>> 600) >>>>> Fiducials all ok now, but still could not find the field. We >>>>> did find a strange >>>>> pattern of stars within three fibers, but could not get >>>>> additional stars within >>>>> the rest of the fibers. We tried slewing to an fk5. We moved >>>>> the RA in -60 to >>>>> +40", with no luck. >>>>> 05:17Z - Mounted cart 8 to try to acquire the field with a >>>>> different cartridge. >>>>> We were unsuccessful, but did not have a lot of time since >>>>> threatening clouds >>>>> just appeared and radar is on it's way. >>>>> ***NOTE*** We noticed that only one of the two bright green >>>>> LED azimuth >>>>> indicator lights on the north side of the telescope was lit. >>>>> The azimuth tick >>>>> marks lined up directly with the stow position, so the >>>>> 'STOW' LED was lit, but >>>>> the azimuth 'CENTER' was not lit. >>>>> 05:32Z - We closed the telescope. >>>>> 05:53Z - Radar sensor went off. We stopped ventilating. >>>>> 09:46Z - Lots of rain outside. We closed everything and >>>>> started cals. >>>>> ---- Telescope Status ---- >>>>> 01:35 Started ventilation >>>>> 03:13 encl25m : open >>>>> 05:35 encl25m : closed >>>>> No interlocks bypassed >>>>> Status at:10:07Z >>>>> Telescope stowed at: 121.0, 30.0, 0.0 mount >>>>> Instrument mounted: cartridge =3D 8 >>>>> Counterweights at: 435 >>>>> LN2 autofill systems: Connected and turned on >>>>> 180L LN2 dewar scales: SP1 188 lbs, 20 psi >>>>> SP2 193 lbs, 20 psi >>>>> ---- Software Used ---- >>>>> STUI : 1.7.0 >>>>> alerts : trunk+svn149374 >>>>> apo : trunk+svn158476 >>>>> boss : v3_6 >>>>> -boss.specMec : 3.0.4 >>>>> gcamera : v2_1 >>>>> guider : v3_3 >>>>> hartmann : v1_4_3 >>>>> hub : Tag: sdss4_v3_0 >>>>> mcp : v6_6_18 >>>>> -mcp.plc : 31 >>>>> -mcp.azFiduci : v1_116 >>>>> -mcp.altFiduc : v1_116 >>>>> -mcp.rotFiduc : v1_116 >>>>> platedb : v2_3 >>>>> sop : v3_3 >>>>> tcc : 1.2.2 >>>>> apogee : not availble >>>>> apogeecal : not availble >>>>> apogeeql : v1_5_9 >>>>> -- Other software >>>>> sdssProcedure : v3_06 >>>>> APO-local : trunk >>>>> Setting up: idlspec2d Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v5_7_12 >>>>> Setting up: |elodie Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v1_3 >>>>> Setting up: |spinspect Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: trunk >>>>> Setting up: |specflat Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v1_20 >>>>> Setting up: |speclog Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: trunk >>>>> Setting up: |platelist Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: trunk >>>>> Setting up: |sdss_python_module Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v1_6_7 >>>>> Setting up: |sqlalchemy Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: 0.9.7 >>>>> Setting up: |psycopg2 Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: 2.5.3 >>>>> Setting up: |idlutils Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v5_5_16 >>>>> Setting up: |idl Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: 7.1 >>>>> Setting up: |dust Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v0_1 >>>>> Setting up: |photolog Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: trunk >>>>> Setting up: actorcore Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v3_2_1 >>>>> Setting up: |opscore Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v2_2 >>>>> Setting up: |external Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v1_2_0 >>>>> Setting up: |actorkeys Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: trunk >>>>> Setting up: |sdss3tools Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: v1_7_13 >>>>> Setting up: |RO Flavor: Linux64 >>>>> Version: 3.5.1 >>>>> ---- Mirror Numbers ---- >>>>> PRIMARY: >>>>> -------- >>>>> Scale: 1.000000; >>>>> MIGS TONIGHT NOMINAL >>>>> Axial A: 0.032 0.031 >>>>> Axial B: -0.014 -0.014 >>>>> Axial C: -0.017 -0.019 >>>>> Trans D: -0.011 -0.009 >>>>> Lateral E: 10.6807 10.6807 >>>>> Lateral F: 12.2936 12.2936 >>>>> GALILS >>>>> Commanded: 10850 -450 5750 13050 14750 14300 >>>>> Actual: 10850 -450 5750 13050 14750 14300 >>>>> SETMIR VALUES >>>>> PrimDesOrient: 0.0 -17.47 11.84 635.9 916.8 >>>>> PrimOrient: 0.0 -17.47 11.84 636.03 916.38 >>>>> SECONDARY: >>>>> ---------- >>>>> Focus: 0.0000 >>>>> Air temp: 17.3 >>>>> Altitude: 30.0 >>>>> MIGS TONIGHT NOMINAL >>>>> Axial A: -7.065 -7.065 >>>>> Axial B: -7.129 -7.127 >>>>> Axial C: -0.047 -0.052 >>>>> Trans D: -0.007 -0.018 >>>>> GALILS >>>>> Commanded: 1605000 1603800 1624950 1400 -2000 >>>>> Actual: 1580600 1580688 1587794 1400 -2000 >>>>> SETMIR VALUES >>>>> SecDesOrient: 1257.0 -3.8 0.0 0.0 9.58 >>>>> SecOrient: 1257.55 -4.64 -0.87 -0.57 9.99 >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> Logs of Nightly APO Activities >>>>> = https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-25mlog/index.html >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> Logs of Nightly APO Activities >>>>> = https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-25mlog/index.html >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> Logs of Nightly APO Activities >>>>> = https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-25mlog/index.html >>>>>=20 >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> Logs of Nightly APO Activities >>>>> = https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-25mlog/index.html >>>=20 >>>=20 >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Logs of Nightly APO Activities >> = https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-25mlog/index.html >=20 >=20 > ____________________________________________________________ > Logs of Nightly APO Activities > = https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-25mlog/index.html >=20 --Apple-Mail=_064704DD-C6F3-482B-9C0F-E1FF0FFB0683 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Unfortunately in the new TCC calibration offsets are on sky rather = than a fixed amount on the axis, so it sort of works, but not perfectly. = If you're going through the trouble of using the engineering = camera, it seems worth it to take a few pterr points and see if one can = get a reasonable update to IA and update the pointing = model. No need to edit the model, just take the = 6 equally spaced points and fit it to the existing model (as one always = does), but fixing all terms except IA (which one does not usually do). = If it produces reasonable results it should work for all altitudes = rather than having to fiddle a cosine dec term in the azimuth offset. = I worry a little that if the offset is really 10 arcminutes, that = the calibration offset might not work for a wide enough range of = altitude to make it a true = fix.-DanOn = Jun 27, 2015, at 5:29 PM, Constance Rockosi wrote:Agreed, since we know that the problem really is in = azimuth.It would be interesting and useful to know = how to modify the pointing model, so we should not drop that = conversation entirely. But for getting us back to work, I would think = the offsets should = work.--ConnieOn Sat, Jun 27, = 2015 at 4:14 PM, Joseph Huehnerhoff = wrote:I was thinking the same thing. Find = the star in the ENG cam, then sticky the offset. Joe On Jun 27, 2015, at 5:07 PM, = Jegunn = wrote:can you do sticky calibration offsets in alt,az? If = so, do you really need to go to TPOINT at all?? I think it would still = be wise to start off withthe eng cam, just to save time trying to = find a star in a 25" acquisitionfiber, but maybe if the star is = bright enough that would work, too.--jOn Sat, 27 Jun = 2015, Dan Long wrote:Hi Jim, = Yes, I saw that page too. One could probably just make a = "grid" of 6 points spaced 60 deg apart in az, at some moderate elevation = (say 50 deg), take those 6 points and fit it to the existing model, = fixing every term except IA. If that produces reasonable results, = just implement that model (only IA will have changed).The first = point you do (or maybe even before you start), you can use calibration = offsets to search for the star. They will remain sticky for = subsequent points.-DanOn Jun 27, 2015, at 4:15 PM, = Jegunn wrote:The TPOINT web page says = that a five or six star pointing model is enough to determine IA for an = initial setup. But the engcam field is only ~3.5', is it not? So it = will/may take some fiddling to get a star at all. I think trying to do = it without the engcam is likely to waste the night (if there is a = night). Best to start with a brightish star quite near the meridian at = low dec (say -15 or so), so azimuth is essentially hour angle except for = a factor of cos(latitude + delta) and take several engcam frames = starting with, say ra - .25 degrees, so 15 arcminutes off, and step up = in ra by .05 deg until you find the star in the engcam frame. center it = and read the coordinates. The azimuth offset is the ra error divided by = cos(latitude + dec) if you are close to the meridian.I don't = know how easy it is to put in an azimuth offset, sticky or not, in the = TCC, but this technique will only work very close to the meridian, = sofinding stars elsewhere in the sky for the pointing model will be = a problem. Will TPOINT give you a solution with only one star if you ask = tofit only one parameter? One should be all it needs for this, but I = haveno idea. Conor??Editing the pointing model files without = knowing what the terms meanor what the units are seems to me a bit = dicey. If you cannot find Russet, I suspect that Russell might know or = have docs that would tell him/you,and if this is done on the 3.5m = (why??) often, one of the other 3.5mobservers might = know.--jimOn Sat, 27 Jun 2015, Dan Long = wrote:I think she is on vacation and = in only intermittent contact, but forwarding on the off chance she = islooking and has input.-DanOn Jun 27, 2015, at 3:03 PM, = mark klaene wrote: Might send note to = russet she does this all the timeMkSent from my iPhoneOn Jun = 27, 2015, at 14:30, Dan Long wrote: = I'm still unsure how to get the offset measured = on the engineering camera to translate to = the IA term. Perhaps the best way to do this is to take a 10 to = 20 point model (e.g. grid of one elevation = and every 20 deg in azimuth) and fit only = allowing IA to vary and see what tpoint comes up = with.-DanOn Jun 27, 2015, at 2:03 PM, Joseph Huehnerhoff = wrote: I just talked with Conor.The = point values are in ~/tccdata/telmod.datThe data is in the standard = TPOINT format.I have not modified a pointing model before, only run = a new one. The IA term isIA = +77.4965 = 1.16735So it seems like we should just have = to edit the second parameter?Joe On = Jun 27, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Dan Long wrote:Hi Conor and/or = Russell, If the observers are able to open and determine = the azimuth offset with theengineering camera, would you be able to = help with implementing that value inthe pointing model IA = term?Cheers, DanBegin forwarded message: = From: Dan Long Subject: Re: = [sloan-25mlog 2378] Re: 2.5m obslog 20150626 (SJD 57200)Date: June = 27, 2015 7:54:18 AM MDTTo: Joseph Huehnerhoff Cc: Dan Long , Audrey_Oravetz, "2.5m_log" , ConorSayres = , Russell Owen , = Muwen Shi Yes, I think = that is going to be the quickest way to determine theindexing = error. A quick calculation shows that at the read head it = isabout .015" per arcminute. I wouldn't think it would shift = more than atenth of an inch when adjusted, but if it was that much a = tenth of aninch would be about 8 arcminutes. One = could try tricks like long exposures and/or out of focus imagesto = try and find guide stars, but it appears things could be far = enoughoff that the engineering camera will be the quickest way to = sort thingsout. Going to an FK5 star near where the = the first plate coordinates are,then checking the center like is = done for a pointing model, thenmeasuring the offset of the star = should get the value. Hopefully it isnearly all in azimuth = (could be a red flag of a coordinate conversionerror if it = isn't). Russell mentioned that the best way to implement = the offset is toedit the IA term in the pointing model. With = the new TCC I'm not surehow to go about that. Where do the = pointing model coefficients live? If one makes changes to a file, = does it need to be committed with git(and I'm really fuzzy on the = details of how to do that)? One finalquestion is what are the = units of IA and how do we determine which signthe error = is?Cheers, DanP.S. Muwen, please put the = engineering camera in the bay.On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Joseph = Huehnerhoff wrote: Is it off far enough = where we need to put use the engineering = camera? Joe = On Jun 27, 2015, at 4:10 AM, asimmons@apo.nmsu.edu = wrote: = &n= bsp; APACHE POINT = OBSERVATORY SDSS 2.5M = &n= bsp; &nbs= p; OBSERVING LOG = &n= bsp; Frid= ay June 26, 2015 = &n= bsp; &nbs= p; (SJD 57200)---- = Observing Team ----Dmitry BizyaevAudrey Oravetz---- = Observing Summary ----We were able to open for a few hours at the = beginning of thenight, but remainedclosed after 05:30Z.*** = We need assistance today! ****** AZ is ~10 arcmin off from where it = should be ***During the time we were open, we were unable to acquire = thefield on two plates.It seems as if the telescope is = significantly off due towhat happened to theazimuth read head = yesterday.One of the two azimuth green lights that signify = thetelescope is at instChangeor at a low altitude does not come = on at the designatedpositions. This is anindication that the = telescope is out of alignment. Wenoticed that at slewingfrom = instChange, both lights come on from 120.8-120.9azimuth - meaning = that thetelescope is close to 10' off. In our attempt to find = thefield, we were lookingin roughly 1' radius.Please see the = log body for more details.---- Observing Plan ----Fri 26 JUN = 2015 57200.0 0.71 02:57 = 10:36 14:13 21:53 = ----APOGEE-2 until 08:39 ( 5.7 h), then = MaNGA ( 1.9 h)---- Observing Log = ----Afternoon:=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DAll hardware, = software, actors, guider, plates checked, noproblems = found.Collimation with cart 16:0:47:02 Hartmann collimate output = on cart #16 sp1: offset: r=3D -2308 (Out of focus); b=3D = 4.8 (Out offocus) sp2: offset: r=3D 2209 (Out of focus); = b=3D -9.1 (Out offocus) sp1: pred. move: = spAverageMove=3D -1925 sp2: pred. move: spAverageMove=3D = 2554 sp1: pred. spResiduals: r=3D -383, b=3D -1.2, txt=3D OK, = spTemp=3D 14.6 sp2: pred. spResiduals: r=3D -345, b=3D = -1.1, txt=3D OK, spTemp=3D 13.4Blue rings are = OK.---cwPositions =3D 423 419 424 = 423;MCP instr =3D 16 (mounted);Guider cart=3D = 16, plate=3D 7433, side=3D A = (loaded);----------motorPosition sp1: = 4796, 4980, = 4887; sp2: 29449, = 28441, 29779;----------Median = spectrographs temperatures: Tsp1=3D 14.6, = Tsp2=3D 13.5; Outside air temperature=3D = 17.4;----------Boss CCD Temp : sp1r0=3D -125.0 = (-126.6); sp1b2=3D -99.6 (-100.0); = sp2r0=3D -134.0 (-134.8); sp2b2=3D = -101.2 (-100.0); = sp1LN2: 10.0; = sp2LN2: = 8.0;----------gcameraTemp=3D -40.1 (-40.0)gcamera = simulating =3D OffRel. Focus =3D 0.0;objArcOff =3D 0.0, = 0.0;----------Apogee: vacuum =3D 8.796e-07 ( < = 1.1e-06 ) ln2Level =3D 92.471 ( > 85 = )----------Weather: humid25m =3D 55.7; airTemp25m = =3D 17.4C, dpTemp25m =3D 8.4C; = diff=3D 9.0C; wind25m =3D n/a, = direction =3D n/a----------semOwner =3D = TCC:0:0stuiVer=3D(1.7.0 2015-06-04), pid =3D 42158During = the checkout it was found that 1/3 of AZ fiducialscomplain that they = are 320,000 off, 1/3 are ~-750 off, and 1/2 = are normal. After comsultation withDan = we decided to not apply any fiducial correction so far.01:35Z = ventilation startedNight:=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DWe completed = spectro monthly flats tonight. 3 00:44 b1-00201945 16 7433 arc Lef = 4.1 6719 6905 = 6812 HART 4 00:45 b1-00201946 16 7433 arc Rig = 4.1 6719 6905 = 6812 HART 5 00:51 b1-00201947 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 4887 6 00:56 b1-00201948 16 7433 arc Out = 4.1 4796 4980 = 4887 7 01:06 b1-00201949 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 4887 8 01:08 b1-00201950 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 4887 9 01:10 b1-00201951 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488710 01:12 b1-00201952 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488711 01:14 b1-00201953 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488712 01:16 b1-00201954 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488713 01:18 b1-00201955 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488714 01:20 b1-00201956 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488715 01:21 b1-00201957 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488716 01:23 b1-00201958 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488717 01:25 b1-00201959 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488718 01:27 b1-00201960 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488719 01:29 b1-00201961 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488720 01:31 b1-00201962 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488721 01:33 b1-00201963 16 7433 fla Out = 30.1 4796 4980 = 488703:13Z - Opened enclosure after the clouds got = better.Filled spectrographs.03:05Z - gotoField cart 9, APOGEE2 = plate 8469, 040+45.Could not find stars. Attempted to offset the = telescope,with no luck. Triedspiral pattern with no luck. = Decided to correct the rotatorand azimuthfiducials (they were = large) and try again.03:25:26 Az: ind=3D18, = deg=3D 61.0, err=3D -325792 = &n= bsp; error is too large to be corrected ( = >600)03:25:53 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D = 62.3, err=3D -682 = &n= bsp; error is too large to be corrected ( = >600)03:25:53 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D = 62.3, err=3D 14558 = &n= bsp; error is too large to be corrected ( = >600)03:27:19 Rot: ind=3D29, = deg=3D233.1, err=3D -1089 = &n= bsp; error is too large to be corrected ( = >600)03:27:23 Rot: ind=3D28, = deg=3D237.8, err=3D -1100 = &n= bsp; error is too large to be corrected ( = >600)03:40:01 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D = 61.0, err=3D -325802 = &n= bsp; error is too large to be corrected ( = >600)03:41:16 Az: ind=3D18, deg=3D = 62.3, err=3D -758 = &n= bsp; error is too large to be corrected ( = >600)Fiducials all ok now, but still could not find the = field. Wedid find a strangepattern of stars within three fibers, = but could not getadditional stars withinthe rest of the fibers. = We tried slewing to an fk5. We movedthe RA in -60 to+40", with = no luck.05:17Z - Mounted cart 8 to try to acquire the field with = adifferent cartridge.We were unsuccessful, but did not have a = lot of time sincethreatening cloudsjust appeared and radar is on = it's way.***NOTE*** We noticed that only one of the two bright = greenLED azimuthindicator lights on the north side of the = telescope was lit.The azimuth tickmarks lined up directly with = the stow position, so the'STOW' LED was lit, butthe azimuth = 'CENTER' was not lit.05:32Z - We closed the telescope.05:53Z - = Radar sensor went off. We stopped ventilating.09:46Z - Lots of rain = outside. We closed everything andstarted cals.---- Telescope = Status ----01:35 Started = ventilation03:13 encl25m : open05:35 = encl25m : closedNo interlocks = bypassedStatus at:10:07ZTelescope stowed at: = 121.0, 30.0, 0.0 mountInstrument = mounted: cartridge =3D 8Counterweights = at: 435LN2 autofill systems: = Connected and turned on180L LN2 dewar scales: SP1 = 188 lbs, 20 = psi = &n= bsp; SP2 = 193 lbs, 20 = psi---- Software Used ----STUI = : 1.7.0alerts = : trunk+svn149374apo = : = trunk+svn158476boss = : = v3_6-boss.specMec : 3.0.4gcamera = : v2_1guider = : v3_3hartmann = : v1_4_3hub = : Tag: = sdss4_v3_0mcp = : = v6_6_18-mcp.plc : 31-mcp.azFiduci = : v1_116-mcp.altFiduc : v1_116-mcp.rotFiduc : v1_116platedb = : v2_3sop = : = v3_3tcc = : = 1.2.2apogee : not = availbleapogeecal : not availbleapogeeql = : v1_5_9 -- Other = softwaresdssProcedure : v3_06APO-local : = trunkSetting up: idlspec2d = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: v5_7_12Setting up: |elodie = &n= bsp; Flav= or: Linux64 Version: v1_3Setting up: |spinspect = &n= bsp; Flavor: Linux64 = Version: trunkSetting up: |specflat = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: v1_20Setting up: |speclog = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: trunkSetting up: |platelist = &n= bsp; Flavor: Linux64 = Version: trunkSetting up: |sdss_python_module = Fl= avor: Linux64 Version: v1_6_7Setting up: |sqlalchemy = &n= bsp; Flavor: Linux64 = Version: 0.9.7Setting up: |psycopg2 = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: 2.5.3Setting up: |idlutils = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: v5_5_16Setting up: |idl = &n= bsp; &nbs= p; Flavor: Linux64 Version: 7.1Setting = up: |dust = &n= bsp; &nbs= p; Flavor: Linux64 Version: v0_1Setting up: = |photolog = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: trunkSetting up: actorcore = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: v3_2_1Setting up: |opscore = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: v2_2Setting up: |external = &n= bsp; Flavor: = Linux64 Version: v1_2_0Setting up: |actorkeys = &n= bsp; Flavor: Linux64 = Version: trunkSetting up: |sdss3tools = &n= bsp; Flavor: Linux64 = Version: v1_7_13Setting up: |RO = &n= bsp; &nbs= p; Flavor: Linux64 Version: = 3.5.1---- Mirror Numbers ----PRIMARY:--------Scale: = 1.000000;MIGS TONIGHT NOMINALAxial A: 0.032 0.031Axial B: = -0.014 -0.014Axial C: -0.017 -0.019Trans D: -0.011 = -0.009Lateral E: 10.6807 10.6807Lateral F: 12.2936 = 12.2936GALILSCommanded: 10850 -450 5750 13050 14750 = 14300Actual: 10850 -450 5750 13050 14750 = 14300SETMIR VALUESPrimDesOrient: 0.0 -17.47 11.84 635.9 = 916.8PrimOrient: 0.0 -17.47 11.84 636.03 = 916.38SECONDARY:----------Focus: = 0.0000Air temp: = 17.3Altitude: 30.0MIGS TONIGHT = NOMINALAxial A: -7.065 -7.065Axial B: -7.129 -7.127Axial C: = -0.047 -0.052Trans D: -0.007 -0.018GALILSCommanded: 1605000 = 1603800 1624950 1400 -2000Actual: 1580600 1580688 = 1587794 1400 -2000SETMIR VALUESSecDesOrient: 1257.0 -3.8 0.0 0.0 = 9.58SecOrient: 1257.55 -4.64 -0.87 -0.57 = 9.99____________________________________________________________Lo= gs of Nightly APO Activities https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-= 25mlog/index.html_________________________________________________= ___________Logs of Nightly APO Activities https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-= 25mlog/index.html_________________________________________________= ___________Logs of Nightly APO Activities https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-= 25mlog/index.html = __________________________________________________= __________ Logs of Nightly APO Activities = = https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-= 25mlog/index.html__= __________________________________________________________Logs of = Nightly APO Activities https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-= 25mlog/index.html__________= __________________________________________________ Logs of Nightly APO Activities https://trac.sdss.org/tracmailman/browser/private/sloan-= 25mlog/index.html = --Apple-Mail=_064704DD-C6F3-482B-9C0F-E1FF0FFB0683--