Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:08:48 -0700 From: Constance Rockosi Subject: Re: 2.5m obslog 20090907 (MJD 55082) I think we should try the experiment of changing the fill interval to 2 hours. But it should be done during the week, while there are people around for a few days to keep an eye on things, watch a few fills to make sure the camera dewars really are getting full, etc. --Connie On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 01:58:37PM -0600, Dan Long wrote: > As Jim says, the plumbing is essentially unchanged. The full > sensors were moved, and *might* account for the larger quantity of > LN2 we see now in a fill. An empty triggered fill now consumes about > 55 lb, instead of 40 lb. A complete fill now takes 30 to 35 minutes. > It used to take 20 to 25 minutes. This seems a reasonable reflection > of the greater quantity of LN2 per fill. A reasonable question; is > it taking longer to fill because of the increased quantity filling > the 10L more fully due to the change in full sensor position, or are > we using more LN2 to get the same fullness as before, because it is > taking longer to fill? > > Note that sp2 fills after sp1 if the rotator is at zero (gravity > sends the liquid to the lower port). If the rotator is at ~35 so > that the dewars are roughly at the same height, they should finish at > about the same time. It is not clear it would be faster, but I > suppose it might be. > > The transfer line on the dog house is vacuum jacketed and was just > pumped down a few weeks ago. The lines to the dewars are the ones > that have always been there, so I don't see how they would account > for the change. > > The valve bodies were swapped out on both dewars, so that should > have addressed the moth problem. > > That said, I think a larger problem is looming. The hold time of > the 10L dewars is somewhere between 9 and 10 hours. As the nights > get longer, this will mean having to stop observing during the night > and refill. It is my understanding that the primary dewar hold time > on the new cameras is something approaching 6 hours. The fill > interval is one hour. This means that most of the LN2 from the 10L > dewars is used cooling the lines just to give the primary dewars a > few ounces of LN2 to top them off. If we could double the fill > interval to two hours, I think it would go a long way to helping the > 10L dewars last the night. Jim/Connie, do you think that would be a > reasonable/safe thing to do? > > -Dan > > > > >Important note: When I've been witness to the fills, sp1 dewar > >always finishes its fill well before sp2. > > > >Steph > >On Sep 8, 2009, at 1:22 PM, jegunn wrote: > > > >> > >>Well, none of this plumbing has been changed, so I do not think it > >>has anything to do with anything new (French and Dan, did you get > >>*ALL* the moths out that had accumulated over the summer?). The > >>hoses from the cross-doghouse transfer line (is it a vacuum line??) > >>are very heavy and very lossy. We have had very good luck in the > >>lab with corrugated metal (steel?) natural-gas hoses, which are > >>light and cheap, wrapped with two layers of sticky 1/4" volara. > >>They are not as robust as the hoses you are using now (but are > >>pretty strong), but are cheap enough to let you have lots of spares > >>and would be enormously more efficient. > >> > >>--jim > >> > >> > >>On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, stephanie snedden wrote: > >> > >>>Yes. It is the secondary (10 liter) dewar long fill time that > >>>could delay us getting to our first target of the night. It has > >>>been reported in the night logs for some nights now. The fill time > >>>is very long even when you have a good head of pressure on the > >>>180-liter dewar. > >>> > >>>Steph > >>>On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:43 AM, jegunn wrote: > >>> > >>>>Hi, Audrey. When you say the `spectrographs take a very long time to > >>>>fill' > >>>>do you mean the PRIMARY (CCD dewars) fill or the SECONDARY (10-liter > >>>>staging dewars) fill. When I was still on the mountain the primary fill > >>>>took a little longer than it used to (the capacity of the new dewars > >>>>is half again as large as the old ones) but the secondary fill took > >>>>seemingly forever. Is this what you are talking about? > >>>>thanks > >>>>--jim > >>>>On Tue, 8 Sep 2009, Audrey Simmons wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> APACHE POINT OBSERVATORY SDSS 2.5M > >>>>> > >>>>> OBSERVING LOG > >>>>> Monday September 7, 2009 > >>>>> > >>>>> (MJD 55082) > >>>>>---=== OBSERVING TEAM ===--- > >>>>>Steph Snedden > >>>>>Audrey Simmons > >>>>>Paul Harding (support) > >>>>>---=== OBSERVING PLAN ===--- > >>>>>To test the guider. > >>>>>---=== OBSERVING SUMMARY ===--- > >>>>>Most the night was lost due to clouds, rain, and some humidity. > >>>>>We took a few test cals with the BOSS spectrographs but were not able > >>>>>to > >>>>>complete the tasks assigned to us by Kyle tonight. We will attempt them > >>>>>tomorrow night. > >>>>>We went on sky with cart 11 and was able to find guide stars. > >>>>>However, we had > >>>>>problems with the guider loop and had to call Paul. He found an > >>>>>error in the > >>>>>guider code relating to missing guide fibers. > >>>>>The spectrographs take a very long time to fill (~30 minutes). > >>>>>---=== OBSERVING LOG ===--- > >>>>>Afternoon: > >>>>>---------- > >>>>>Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > >>>>>/dev/sda3 142G 130G 5.4G 97% / > >>>>>/dev/sda1 99M 30M 64M 33% /boot > >>>>>/dev/sdb1 917G 826G 45G 95% /data > >>>>>sdssfiles1p:/data1/data > >>>>> 1.5T 755G 638G 55% /files > >>>>>hub25mp:/home 92G 45G 48G 49% /home_hub25m > >>>>>Fiducials were not read at 45 degrees altitude (going up and > >>>>>down) and not at > >>>>>60 degrees altitude (going up). > >>>>>Mounted cart 1. > >>>>>01:10Z - Started ventilating. Lots of clouds and radar nearby. > >>>>>Night: > >>>>>------ > >>>>>02:09Z - Light sprinkles of rain. Closed doors to telescope, but > >>>>>kept the fans > >>>>>running since the humidity is not a problem. > >>>>>03:28Z - Began testing flats, arcs, and biases with the BOSS > >>>>>spectrographs. > >>>>>Nothing out of the ordinary. Although, the flat we took was really > >>>>>faint > >>>>>because this is a MARVLES plate. We will go through the tests again > >>>>>later > >>>>>tonight on a BOSS plate. Images 100857-100862. > >>>>>05:42Z - High humidity. Turned off fans. Still lots of clouds around. > >>>>>07:50Z - Humidity dropped. We started ventilating again. > >>>>>08:22Z - Clouds cleared, but looked like a sucker hole on the > >>>>>satellite. > >>>>>Mounted BOSS cart 11 and force-filled spectrographs. The > >>>>>APOWeatherStatus page > >>>>>showed a lightning strike 11kms away, but there were no heavy > >>>>>clouds around. > >>>>>08:38Z - Took an arc with the BOSS cartridge. Looks like an arc! > >>>>>And not that > >>>>>bad out of focus. Image 100863. > >>>>>08:41Z - Clouds mostly cleared. We opened the enclosure. > >>>>>09:03Z - goToField cart 11. Took guider flat. Found one star to > >>>>>begin with in > >>>>>one of the big fibers, then made offsets and found the rest of > >>>>>the field. Then > >>>>>adjusted the focus to -200. We could not get the guider loop to work. > >>>>>We > >>>>>called Paul. > >>>>>09:49Z - Clouds rolled in. > >>>>>Paul found an error in the guider code with a missing rotation > >>>>>angle for fiber > >>>>>11. > >>>>>11:11Z - We called it a night. Closed the enclosure and stopped > >>>>>ventilating. > >>>>>11:13Z - endNight rejoiced. > >>>>>---=== IMAGING RUN SUMMARY ===--- > >>>>>Run Time Stripe Lambda Last Flavor Comments > >>>>> Start End Begin End Frame > >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>---=== IMAGING RUN DETAILS ===--- > >>>>>---=== SKIPPY RESULTS ===--- > >>>>>Run Frame nFrames stars muErr muRms nuErr nuRms rot > >>>>>az el > >>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>---=== LTMATCH RESULTS ===--- > >>>>>Run Field nFields alt az nGood rowMean rowSig colMean colSig rot > >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>---=== SPECTROSCOPY DATA SUMMARY ===--- > >>>>>Summary Checked (y/n): > >>>>>QA Procedures Done (y/n): > >>>>>UT Exp Time flavor comment (S/N)^2 totals > >>>>>========================================== b1 r1 b2 r2 > >>>>>---=== TELESCOPE OFFSETS AND SCALE I ===--- > >>>>>Time Instrument Az Alt Rot > >>>>>Scale > >>>>> pos offset pos offset pos offset > >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>---=== TELESCOPE OFFSETS AND SCALE II ===--- > >>>>>---=== FOCUS LOG ===--- > >>>>> > >>>>> setmir piston Temp Wind > >>>>>Time Inst scale M1 M2 Foc Az Alt (C) MPH > >>>>>Dir filt fwhm > >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>---=== WEATHER LOG ===--- > >>>>> > >>>>> Wind > >>>>> Time Temp F Dewp F MPH Direction Dust DIMM Sky > >>>>> > >>>>> 22:08Z 48 46 16 84 (E) 1496 - Rainy, cloudy > >>>>> 22:40Z 48 46 11 89 (E) 1336 - " > >>>>> 23:12Z 49 46 11 123 (ESE) 1082 - " > >>>>> 23:45Z 50 43 12 140 (SE) 716 - Cloudy > >>>>> 00:17Z 49 45 7 75 (ENE) 824 - " > >>>>> 00:49Z 50 44 1 346 (NNW) 798 - " > >>>>> 01:21Z 50 43 4 341 (NNW) 804 - " > >>>>> 01:53Z 53 40 9 341 (NNW) 461 - " > >>>>> 02:25Z 54 40 10 344 (NNW) 298 - " > >>>>> 02:57Z 53 40 10 11 (N) 387 - Rainy, cloudy > >>>>> 03:30Z 56 38 4 308 (NW) 202 - " > >>>>> 04:02Z 54 40 5 261 (W) 304 - " > >>>>> 04:34Z 52 42 6 258 (WSW) 404 - " > >>>>> 05:06Z 51 44 18 213 (SSW) 680 - Cloudy > >>>>> 05:38Z 48 45 13 154 (SSE) 639 - Humid, > >>>>>partly cloudy > >>>>> 06:10Z 47 44 12 127 (SE) 618 - " > >>>>> 06:43Z 50 42 5 185 (S) 641 - Partly Cloudy > >>>>> 07:15Z 54 41 3 231 (SW) 599 - " > >>>>> 07:48Z 52 41 1 212 (SSW) 689 - " > >>>>> 08:20Z 52 40 3 218 (SW) 564 - " > >>>>> 08:52Z 49 42 1 135 (SE) 598 - " > >>>>> 09:24Z 50 41 11 183 (S) 546 - Cloudy > >>>>> 09:56Z 51 41 9 185 (S) 635 - " > >>>>> 10:29Z 52 40 8 194 (SSW) 545 - " > >>>>> 11:01Z 52 40 8 215 (SW) 573 - " > >>>>>---=== TELESCOPE STATUS ===--- > >>>>>01:10Z - Began ventilation. Doors and louvers opened, fans on. > >>>>>05:42Z - Stopped ventilating. > >>>>>07:50Z - Began ventilating. > >>>>>08:41Z - Opened enclosure. > >>>>>11:11Z - Enclosure is on, doors and louvers are closed, and fans are > >>>>>off. > >>>>>No interlocks bypassed. > >>>>>Status at: 11:11Z > >>>>>Telescope stowed at: 30,121,00 mount > >>>>>Instrument mounted: Cartridge 11 > >>>>>Counterweights at: 250 lbs > >>>>>LN2 autofill systems: Connected and turned on. > >>>>>180L LN2 dewar scales: Spectro 167.10 lbs, 18.04 psi > >>>>> Imager 142.60 lbs, 20.22 psi > >>>>>= > >>>>>---=== SOFTWARE USED ===--- > >>>>> > >>>>> IOP/SOP: v4_40_0 > >>>>> Watcher: v2_36_0 > >>>>> MCP: NOSVN > >>>>> TPM: tpm_v3_5_0 > >>>>> AstroDa: v15_13_1 > >>>>> TCC: TCC 2.11.0 2009-06-24 > >>>>> sdssProcedures: v2_44 > >>>>> SoS: v5_1_8 > >>>>> plate-mapper: v4_3_1 > >>>>>---=== MIRROR NUMBERS ===--- > >>>>>PRIMARY: > >>>>>-------- > >>>>>Scale: 1.000000 > >>>>>MIGS TONIGHT NOMINAL > >>>>>Axial A -0.6940 -0.6940 > >>>>>Axial B -0.0310 -0.0410 > >>>>>Axial C -0.3710 -0.3710 > >>>>>Trans D 11.6150 11.6170 > >>>>>Lateral E 10.3505 10.3505 > >>>>>Lateral F 11.9380 11.9253 > >>>>>GALILS > >>>>>Commanded: 9900. 400. 5850. 1200. 2950. 2750. > >>>>>Actual: 9917. 401. 5832. 1205. 2954. 2757. > >>>>>SETMIR VALUES > >>>>>PriDesOrient: 0.00 -3.30 5.10 278.08 178.06 > >>>>>PriOrient: 0.00 -3.04 5.26 277.70 178.07 > >>>>>SECONDARY: > >>>>>---------- > >>>>>Focus: 0.00 > >>>>>Air Temp.: 11.6 > >>>>>Alt.: 29.999997 > >>>>>MIGS TONIGHT NOMINAL > >>>>>Axial A 18.6200 18.6150 > >>>>>Axial B 15.6260 15.6120 > >>>>>Axial C 13.8420 13.8170 > >>>>>Trans D -11.7890 -11.7780 > >>>>>GALILS > >>>>>Commanded: 1597696. 1566118. 1588121. -7600. -12400. > >>>>>Actual: 1597721. 1566188. 1588095. -7597. -12380. > >>>>>SETMIR VALUES > >>>>>SecDesOrient: 1257.00 -4.00 -9.00 10.00 234.42 > >>>>>SecOrient: 1256.98 -4.03 -9.01 10.18 234.71 > >>>>>---=== PROBLEMS IN DETAIL ===--- > >>>>>DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS Digital Sky Survey DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS > >>>>>DSS *** The information posted to SDSS mailing lists is proprietary *** > >>>>>DSS This is message 4700 in the sdss-25mlog archive, URL > >>>>>DSS http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/sdss-25mlog/msg.4700.html > >>>>>DSS The index is at > >>>>>http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/sdss-25mlog/INDEX.html > >>>>>DSS To join/leave the list, go to > >>>>>DSS > >>>>>http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/cgi-bin/mailinglists.pl/show_subscription?list=sdss-25mlog > >>>>>DSS To post a message, mail it to sdss-25mlog@astro.princeton.edu > >>>>>DSS > >>>>>DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS > >>>>DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS Digital Sky Survey DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS > >>>>DSS *** The information posted to SDSS mailing lists is proprietary *** > >>>>DSS This is message 4701 in the sdss-25mlog archive, URL > >>>>DSS http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/sdss-25mlog/msg.4701.html > >>>>DSS The index is at > >>>>http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/sdss-25mlog/INDEX.html > >>>>DSS To join/leave the list, go to > >>>>DSS > >>>>http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/cgi-bin/mailinglists.pl/show_subscription?list=sdss-25mlog > >>>>DSS To post a message, mail it to sdss-25mlog@astro.princeton.edu > >>>>DSS > >>>>DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS > >>> > >> > >>DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS Digital Sky Survey DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS > >>DSS *** The information posted to SDSS mailing lists is proprietary *** > >>DSS This is message 4704 in the sdss-25mlog archive, URL > >>DSS http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/sdss-25mlog/msg.4704.html > >>DSS The index is at > >>http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/sdss-25mlog/INDEX.html > >>DSS To join/leave the list, go to > >>DSS > >>http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/cgi-bin/mailinglists.pl/show_subscription?list=sdss-25mlog > >>DSS To post a message, mail it to sdss-25mlog@astro.princeton.edu > >>DSS > >>DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS > > > DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS Digital Sky Survey DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS > DSS *** The information posted to SDSS mailing lists is proprietary *** > DSS This is message 4707 in the sdss-25mlog archive, URL > DSS http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/sdss-25mlog/msg.4707.html > DSS The index is at > http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/sdss-25mlog/INDEX.html > DSS To join/leave the list, go to > DSS > http://www.astro.princeton.edu:81/cgi-bin/mailinglists.pl/show_subscription?list=sdss-25mlog > DSS To post a message, mail it to sdss-25mlog@astro.princeton.edu > DSS > DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS DSS > > !DSPAM:10028,4aa6b7b024032021468! > -- Associate Professor, Assoc. 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